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Place for all Rune Factory 4 tips.
- At the beginning of the game, it'll ask you if you're flying high or are scared. Flying high means you are a male, scared means you are a female. I don't get why they couldn't have had a simple menu but alright.
- Get Kiel & Clorica to lv3 friendship asap (takes less than a week), then every morning take turn to invite each of them out of town. they'll throw you food if you haven't eaten any for the day. you must run in zigzag to dodge the food so you can pick it up. Clorica just threw me a Royal Curry worth 500,000 and Kiel threw a Union Stew worth 15,000 (you can reset to get different ones if you really want to). this does not depend on which dungeon has been unlocked or your progress in the story. To make this easier make sure your riding a monster, this works much better.
- Your birthday is determined by what you have your birthday saved as in settings. If your birthday is the 7th of June, your birthday will be 7th summer.
- Get people's friendship up. It helps for a request.
- There's some tips on the side of your farm. Read them carefully.
- Cure is the best thing to use in the early game due to it healing companions too.If you’re trying to grow giant crops, don’t harvest them until the four fuse into one. I’ve made this mistake before and you won’t get the giant crop if one of the four is missing.
- The invisiblade is a good early weapon, use Invisible ore for it.
- One thing to add, there are skills for EVERYTHING. And that includes sleeping, which increases your maximum HP/RP, strength, intelligence and vitality.
- To increase sleeping skill -> sleep before 1AM
- Just regaining RP/HP -> sleep before 6AMThese are more for farming.
- Searching: raise max RP and INT, and may yield better items. Increases when you find items and open chests.
- Walking: raises max HP/RP and vitality.
- Eating: Slowly increases overall HP/RP, strength, intelligence and vitality.
- An easy way to tell if you've talked to someone is by looking at the speech bubble over their head when you get close to them. If it's orange, you haven't talked to them that day, if you have, the bubble will be white.
- Also, if you don’t care about sleeping skill, you can totally stay up to 5:59 and sleep then wake up at 6am still.
- Object X. Abuse the hell out of it. You can make it by failing a recipe on the Chemistry Table, so using any ingredient that's not part of any recipe, like Scrap Metals, Material Stones, Lumber, Weed, anything, instantly gets you one. In order of importance for a new player:- drink as much Object X as you can before going to bed (before 1AM, for Sleeping EXP, preferably). This will grind EXP for all your status ailment resistances.- throw it at enemies. Consider that Object X is pretty much this game's version of Final Fantasy's Bad Breath, in a bottle. As in, a vial of poison that inflicts almost every ailmentin the game on a single strike. It's also the most reliable way to inflict both Stun (makes melee enemies slow and sluggish) and Seal (makes ranged enemies completely unable to attack you). Wanna try to sequence break into a few places on a low level, like Yokmir Cavern, Leon Karnak, Sechs Territory, or heck, even Sharance Maze before you even got to your first boss? Bring as much Object X as you can and work on your aim.
- - got a Mealy Apple? Slot it AFTER an Object X when upgrading your equipment. Pick your jaw from the floor right after. Reason being, Object X, as an upgrading material, gives a slew of negative bonuses. However, Mealy Apples inverts the bonuses of the previous material used. Do the math.
- You can talk to the villagers more than once during event days. Once before you start the event (or before 11 am) and after you finish it.
- But special case of Fishing events. You are able to talk to them during the event (you need to participate I guess), which makes it extra opportunity to talk to them.
- Basically 1 chance between 6:00 - 11:00, (during fishing events) 1 chance between 11:00 - 18:00, and 1 chance post event 18:00 onwards
- Walk along the edges of the screen, sometimes you'll discover hidden areas
- One good thing of having villagers/pets with you is they can detect hidden items (you'll see a bubble with treasure chest above their head)
- Hidden items respawn, so you can exit screen and come back to get it again as many times as you want for the day. You can grind your Search Skill by doing this.
- Partying up with the NPC and going into to their respective shop/inn will allow you to access their shop menu from Talk.
- When chopping or mining stacks of stone/branches, it can be frustrating as Lest/Frey hits air too often thus making you have to reposition yourself. This can be mitigated by directly facing south when chopping and mining.
- (Portable switch Version) To further decrease the time of purchasing stacks of items, both simultaneously press the A button and the Switch's screen of the item you want and hold both down. The screen should stop shaking and the item's purchasing number will blur upon a successful attempt.
- Keep an eye on your soil’s health by using a Magnifying Glass. If your soil health is below 100, I’d hoe some Withered Grass, Corn, or 4-Leaf Clover on it. Max soil health is 255.
- If you upgrade a weapon with Scrap Metal+ (obtained rarely by failing a forge), you can make a weapon do 1 damage every hit. The only purpose for this is you can hit Mineral Squeeks (in Leon Karnak) more than once without killing it and get a higher chance of finding 10-Fold Steel.
- Should you be lucky enough to find a Legendary Scale while fishing or in a chest, save it until you get 10-Fold Steel and get a weapon that deals a lot of damage. Then upgrade the weapon with the scale and then the steel. That weapon will drain half of the damage you deal (if you do 4K damage, you’ll drain 2K HP). You won’t have to fear dying in a battle ever again.
- Raven sells crafting material you’ve shipped so try to only sell crafting items that are difficult to obtain. Love Crystals, Turnip’s Miracle, Rune Prana drops, etc. But if the item doesn’t say “Unshipped” in the description and you haven’t shipped it, you don’t have to ship it because it won’t add to your shipping rate and it won’t be sold anywhere if you do ship it.
- Best time to sell things in your castle shop is right before an event and right after. You’ll catch all the bachelorettes and bachelors in one day. So have lots of expensive product to sell!
- If you find Water Shoes before you can craft them, you’ll be able to access hidden areas that have good recipes and items. Not to mention you’ll be able to walk where the fish are in the water which will help you win the fishing contests.
- Just casting your fishing line into water will give you fishing exp (Hopefully it’s still the same in RF4 Special). You don’t even need to catch anything. It’s a good way to level before a contest. A higher fishing level means fishing will be easier and you’ll catch better fish.
- If you want to handicap your opponents and you have Holy Spore and Double Steel, upgrade those onto a weapon and you’ll have 99% chance of inflicting poison, paralysis, and seal. Not to mention you’ll raise your Resist PaPoison/Seal levels making you more resistant to the three.
- Also you can upgrade a magnifying glass into any farm tool to see the stats while it's equipped. I'd recommend upgrading your hoe with it.
- Another way to handicap enemies is feeding them failed dishes or Object X, the latter doing more damage and status effects. You can easily turn unwanted items into Object X at the chemistry set.
- Nationalize Baths as soon as you can
- If your Max RP is less than an item you're crafting/upgrading, fried fish dishes can increase max RP by a constant number and percentage. For more max RP, make Relax Tea and add a fried fish dish to it. IIRC I got about 400 + 30% max RP.
- Consuming Object X while wearing a Talisman slowly increases your status effect resistance while not affecting you.
- Upgrade. Staffs. With. Boss. Drops. Regardless of whether the staff is your main weapon or not, seriously experiment with this. Common boss drops give you the boss's basic moves, but the rare ones give you the much stronger moves.
- If you're in a dungeon and you come across a treasure room, open all the chests before attacking the mimics. I've seen people accidentally destroy treasure chests and it's so painful, especially the blue ones! Alternatively, if you have townspeople with you, tell them to wait before proceeding to the next room. Even if the chest just had a bottle of ketchup and a rock, that's better than never getting to open it!
- Wet shoes are pretty good if you can handle tripping a lot. 75% crit, especially when using dual blades is worth the tripping.
- You can speedrun running the shop by taming any monster with a suck move. Simply take him with you and literally suck in the slow moving customers. You can even get a sale from someone who wasn't even headed to the shop!
- If you absolutely love items like I do, upgrade your weapons with rare can and 4 leaf clover.
- If you need to grind boss items, hit escape right after the boss death animation is finished. The boss will appear again, the item will still be there if it dropped, and yiu can do this infinite times. There is an exception with the Siren. If she drops something into the water, when you leave the screen, it will despawn. You need to fish it out with a fishing pole.
- Save money by going to Revival Cave every day. If you die while an Ayngondaia Lawn is in your bag, you'll be revived with about 10% of HP.
- Upgrading an item with the Object X actually reverses the effects of the subsequent materials you add! Usually a bad thing, but you could use this early on to turn the negative resists of something like Oil into a positive, or:
- Speaking of grinding boss items, highly recommended to go find the monster called Typhoon during, well, Typhoons. He can be found on the bridge near the Spring dungeon area entrance. Normally only fought once per Typhoon so use the Escape trick.
- The Typhoon boss can drop Mealy Apples. These give a lot of bad debuffs to various elemental resistances... but using the Object X trick above, you can turn it into a powerful upgrade material for armor and accessories!
- WARNING: Double Steel,10-fold steel and Object X do not stack with each other. Also, you can only use the effects of Double Steel and 10-fold steel once each on an item.
- also worth it to give Kiel (and Forte) frequent gifts. he can give back rare monster drops. this might depend on which dungeon has been unlocked.
- always invite someone to take bath with you (male/female doesn't matter), they'll give you a free item.
- take people on dates at the forge so they make you free accessories, like a Talisman, Star Pendant, etc.
- You can only have one child, you can choose if they are a boy or a girl or leave it up to chance. Venti needs to be around to choose a boy or girl. She goes out on holiday at some point in the story.
- The credits play at the end of every story arc so when the credits roll, it isn't the end.
- You can date multiple people at the same time. The more relationships you are in, the hardeless likely you will successfully enter into another relationship. You can get rebuffed even with 10 Relationship points. Relationship points gains will also slow down drastically as you have more relationships.
- There are no farm animals, instead you tame monsters who then give you stuff like eggs or milk.
- The crafting is complex. Full stop.
- Speaking of companions, ask forte to go with you whenever you go on an adventure. It will help. The Knight will accompany you on adventures immediately, everybody else does at 3FP, everybody also will stay in your party forever barring town events popping up with their involvement in once they hit like 8FP
- When a sign recommends being level 40 for example (it doesn't, this is an example) you will be severely underpowered. It is assuming you have the best possible gear for that level.
- Killing bosses gets you prince(ss) points which are very useful, refight bosses every day to sell their drops. Also Kiel loves boss drops.
- Listen to Eliza's requests. They help a lot. Yea, you can unlock new game+ when you finish them all. A new game file can inherit all your old file's items, skills, levels and (I think) relationship points. This allows you to play as the other gender and collect the other bachelor(ettes)'s confession scene.
- Bring food with you whenever out for rune points and health point regeneration.
- If you're going to be killed by a boss or monster, fast travel away. Don't die for reasons I'll explain in the next point.
- If you die, you will lose money and quite a lot. Unless you're woken up by Nancy of course.
- This game can be hard. If you're a series veteran or want a challenge, play on hard. If you want a difficult but balanced experience, play normal. If you're playing for the farming and are coming from story of seasons or harvest moon, play easy. The combat won't be too hard.
- Don't be pressured to marry quickly. New characters are unlocked later in the game which you may like.
- Certain characters can't be married until the end of arc 2. You pretty much need to complete arc 1 just so you have all the villagers unlocked, which will open up events that require their presence.
- The telecommunicator is not worth it. At all. Essentially, it allows you to use the airship to fast travel from anywhere, except it's a furniture item. Leave it in your room if you want it to be useful, other wise it's a hassle. If i recall correctly, this is a custom fast travel point. I've put one in every dungeon planting field to quickly fast travel there.
- You can cancel requests through the notebook.
- There is something called a dungeon seed you need to get. You can't buy it from shops. Here's my tip. Minor spoilers. Sercezero Hill, mushrooms, 1-5 days of the month.Dungeon seed.
- When skipping time, water your crops.
- If you dislike the farming, you can eventually automate it through the animals. You still have to look after them though.
- Don't spend prince(ss) points on useless things. If you don't use the fridge, don't upgrade it.
- Don't be put off by the anime style. It grows on you and I must admit, it is pretty good. I didn't really like it at first but as I said, grows on you.
- You don't have to farm, marry, fish or even socialise. You can play it as an action rpg, a fishing game, a dating sim or a farming game!
- You can choose whether to use your fists, a long sword, a short sword, dual blades, magic etc etc. Some attacks will use rune points.
- You don't need a solid understanding of the lore. The game explains everything you need to know.
- The Sechs Empire (hah, you know what that means) is pronounced se-ch-s. Ch as in chocolate.(It probably isn't but no childish humour here.)
- There isn't much customization but you can get different outfits.
- If you can't get someone to follow you, check if you have a town event going on at the diary.
- If you forget what you're doing, check at the diary.
- From my knowledge, there is no online multiplayer.. The game is kind of suggestive, some questionable content.
- Brush animals daily.
- Buy clippers to clip woollies for extra wool. You can get clippers from a quest or as a drop from wild woollies. You can also clip wild woollies for wool, they don't need to be in your barn. Woollies become more aggressive and start attacking after being clipped.Wool can appear in Raven's inventory (after you've shipped it once) and it's pretty cheap.
- On that note, always upgrade your equipment to level 10 before selling to get a little more money and raise your forge/craft skills.
- If you're lucky, Arthur's shop can sell branches or rocks that you can buy in stacks and you'll never run out of woods/material stones again.
- When you first start the game, you can also destroy signs/save points (they respawn) and kill ants for woods. So practice your weapon on them.
- Volkanon likes woods and material stonesYou can also buy scrap metals in bulk if you have spare money, then use them to grind forging/crafting.
- Sword/Shield flower. Field dungeon. Final boss.
- Get the knives set for cooking tools first, because sashimi can be easily made by just using fish you caught and is decent for early game healing. Also good for the horse dude who shows up later. Later on, toast, which only needs flour and the oven is a great healing item for like 60% of the game.
- imo the order to get your tools is cooking -> forges/crafting -> chemistry set
- try to make your own weapons and armor asap. Pretty much anything you can buy or find is worse than what you can make. Don't ignoring crafting and forging because it will bite you back eventually
- when you want to trigger the third plot arc, marriage or premarriage events look up how to force them.
- hold a to repeatedly pick up all items of the same thing
- no you cant romance Volkanon or the elf detective unfortunately. All marriage candidates have animated cutscene to introduce them.
- you can place tools anywhere in the world you want.
- you won't get recipes for weapon types you never use.
- two screens left, two screens north of the obesdian mansion spawns a random fruit seed once a day in front of the big tree, its invisible.
- Doug not going past 3FP for a long time is normal.
- Towns people are only shit allies at first because their equipment is bad, suit them up with goood equipment. Also just pick 2-3 people you want to be in your party because using everybody takes too much time.
- Here is a well written blog describing all the bloody stats for dirt!
- The rosary accessory will empty out Sharance maze to have only two room floors and send you to the boss room pretty much immediately. You will lose out on regular dungeon loot though. You can switch out the rosary to fight the boss with your regular accessories.When crafting accessories, they can add other accessories into the recipe to have the final crafted accessory to inherit all special effects of the accessories you added. Very useful to stack useful effects onto a single equipment slot.
- You can add magnifying glass to defensive equipment ,Which means you can add it to a random item and it will work with any tool equipped that way
- Margaret learns an AOE healing spell, but only if certain conditions are met. (Being a Male Protagonist, and Having her as 'Dating') from here, there will be a random dialogue queue about learning a spell from her sister. You do not need to have her marriage event done to unlock this. If you marry another girl before Margaret learns this, it will be locked out as she will no longer be someone you can date.
- Word of warning. Don't do multiple requests without opening chest rewards. Guess they only have one spawn point so I did one thinking they'd overlap or push each other out of the way but nope, totally erased the existence of the previous reward.
- Giant Twinkle trees are more likely to drop Glitta Augite than the normal tree. I got like 3/4 Glitta Augite from a 255HP tree, while the 255HP Giant Tree produces 12/20 ones, so there is definitely a difference.
- Giant fruit trees always produce max fruit per day. That is 4-7 fruit guaranteed per day ( I have only tested on a 3 Num soil, and they produce 7 Apples/grapes/oranges every day). It still might be more profitable to plant 4 small ones, because each can give between 0-5 fruit each day, so with average luck you could get 8-12 fruits, but the guaranteed fruit can be nice.
- start with planting 2 seeds of each type, 1 for harvest/shipping, 1 for using the scythe on to upgrade level
- upgrade your scythe when possible because the rusty one gives max lv3 seeds, the next one up to lv6, etc. ship a seed once it reaches level 3, 6, etc. so later the shop will sell them at that level and your process won't be lost/you won't have to start all over from lv1 if there's a storm. seeds you pick up in the dungeon will become that level also. i only start planting a lot once the seeds have been upgraded to at least lv3-5.
- starting from lv6 you may also need to use a greenifier to continue upgrading seed level
- plant as many apple/grape/orange/twinkle trees as possible (at least 1 square apart between the rows/columns or however you plan it, for easy picking). apparently the more fruits you pick up (especially apple) the higher level and stronger the field becomes through the game and can withstand typhoon/give better seed level/idk. twinkle trees give woods and items which if upgraded into your weapon will increase its range. this means that every day i have to visit the tree that gives random tree seeds.
- make wettable powder at the pharmacy to sprinkle on crops to prevent typhoon damage if a villager starts to talk about dark sky/strong wind or give hints that there's going to be one, you need to plant and stock up cherry grass and the blue bell looking flowers (forgot name) to make wettable powder when needed.
- till withered grass in soil if you reuse/harvest on the soil too much or used too many formula A/B/C (make a lot of them at the pharmacy and make use of them to speed up crop growth)
- upgrade the scythe/hoe in the forge with a magnifying glass to conveniently check the level/strength of the land plot and crop
- get fodder in the hidden right screen in the cave, no need to plant it. bring the fodder bin and put it at the save point in the cave so when you teleport back you can put the fodder in it immediately
- as for how many fields/barns to expand, just make it simple - if you run out of space then get a new one. no deadline/goal needed. sometimes upgrade an existing barn is cheaper then building a new one, check how much it costs. you may want to have the left/middle/right of a field to work on your own (not let a monster work on it) because it's reserved for upgrading seeds/making giant crop/harvesting a crop for the first time (monster's harvest don't count for quests) or whatever. you may also get a new entire field you don't plant on but let your monsters work there to gather woods/stones/herbs.
- lamp grass is the recipe for giantizer, so if you want to make a lot of giant crops (to tame bosses, etc.), start planting and stocking up lamp grass when you can afford to
- corn is needed for recipes for Formula C (with fireflower) & Greenifier+, corn on the cob (1 item, oven recipe) sells for decent $, tilling a grown corn can also restore soil health (but imo expensive)
- spinach is the fastest growing crop (2 days) if you want to spam it or get 1 crop to lv10 the quickest. you can also give 1 to vishnal every day as a gift.
- moondrop flower is needed in the recipe for Greenifier, but i usually already have some by the time i need them. the doctor and the nurse also like moondrop as a gift. xiaopai/ambedoll girl(?)/forte(?) also like flowers, but there are other things you can give them. on a side note if you give gifts to the doctonurse/doll girl and arthur often (1 fave + 1 like + 1 neutral everyday if you feel like), they sometimes give you back formula B/C/GiantizeGreenifier as gifts.
- 3 chickens, 3 cows, 1 monster of each element, bosses.
- Only really hold onto a level 2 turnip to finish the request for shipping a level 2 turnip unlocks seeds being able to be sold to the shop to be a higher level remember
- Also save toyherb and moondrop as well
- Also grow 6 radishes - 5 to be harvested for a request and the other to be culled for its higher level seed.
- Have a couple plots on your farm where you plant one of each crop and flower. Use Greenifer+ (or two) and when the crops and flowers are ready, use your sickle and get high level seeds. Keep planting them and cutting them until they’re level 9 or 10 seeds. Then put them in the shipping box so you can buy the high-level seeds at their respected shop.
- All monsters water crops in RF4, the catch is they need to like you first, you need 3 monsters to cover an entire field, and they'll get tired after a while so you'll need to give them something that will recover their health, be it food, potion, or taking them into your party and casting a cure spell.
- The game doesn't actually tell you it's because their hp is low, the game suggests you should brush them and give them gifts and time off, if I recall correctly but yeah just heal them and they'll get back to work
- it is possible to get Lv 10 seeds with a Rusty sickle. You just need to use as much greenifier(+) as you can to get your soil to +2.00 quality. Save before cutting the crop. If the level didn't raise from the lvl of the seed you planted +2, reload and just water it and let it stay on the ground. Repeat until the seed you get is (lvl of the seed you planted +2) to the max of lvl 10, of course. This happens because crops keep increasing in level up as long as they are in the +2 quality soil, even when fully grown, as long as they are watered every day.
Early game money tips:
- Some people like shearing wild woolies and sell the wool. I don't think it makes a ton, but it's something.
- If you have the medicine table, you can turn the colorful grasses to powders for money
- I also like going to the room before the boss in Yokmir Forest and level grinding off the beetles. Level grinding isn't super useful later on, but it is nice for early game and beetles sometimes drop horns which I can then sell.
- If I want some quick cash early on, I go farm the buffamoos far southeast of the water temple, right below a fishing spot. They drop milk S+M fairly often for me and at 260+380 a piece you can net some quick cash
Here is a link to some faqs from gamefaqs:https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/3ds/635388-rune-factory-4/faqs
Some additional websites for reference:Calendar: https://dangospherez.tumblr.com/post/135026810404/rune-factory-4-all-events/amp
Easy Gift Ref: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/635388-rune-factory-4/68244194
Barn Produce Monster List: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/635388-rune-factory-4/7331832
Boss Taming List: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/635388-rune-factory-4/68395473
Ten things I wish i knew: https://www.reddit.com/NintendoSwitch/comments/fa301j/10_things_i_would_have_liked_to_have_known_when_i/
Level 10 turnips, the best item in the game:https://www.reddit.com/runefactory/comments/f9m4b7/rf4the_most_useful_item_in_the_game_lvl10_turnip/
Personal preferences/Tips for just having fun:This game is definitely not for casuals. It will suck you in and drop you out five hours later
- Clorica is best girl.
- Arthur is best guy.
- Have Fun
- This is not a farming game, it is an action rpg with farming elements added in.
- This game is not a dating sim, it's an action rpg with romance added in.Can we please have this pinned?
- Don't be overwhelmed. If you feel overwhelmed, just go to Eliza and do a request.
- If you use gloves as your weapon you can suplex any monster as a special move. It's satisfying as fuck and that's why I will always use gloves as my weapon of the choice. The End
Great spreadsheet by u/Chiyumii
I made a spreadsheet sorted by season for veggies and flowers
I am just going start giving thanks to everyone in this section now.
Argument for Jesus Resurrection
The disciples claim they had experiences of meeting the risen Christ with full conviction..... the disciples definitely believed they seen and touched the risen Christ.... even Bart Ehrman who is an atheist-agnostic quotes...... "I dont doubt at all that some disciples claimed this,... Paul, writing about twenty five years later, indicates that this is what they claimed, and i don't think he is making it up. The new Testament: A Historical Introduction to the early Christian Writings Page 301
and another christian scholar quotes "It is an equally secure fact that the disiples of Jesus saw him (in what sense is not certain) after his death...... thereafter his followers saw him. The Historical Figure of Jesus Page 13
The reason for this is many attestations, such as Paul's Epistles, Mark, John, Matthew, Luke and Acts, and even Josephus,
And there is no way to explain the rise of Christianity if this didn't happen, something had to happen which compelled the disciples of Jesus to begin preaching this..
So.. the disciples claimed they seen and touched the Risen Christ...... but i'm sure you would say why take their claims seriously? ......
When testimonies are unreliable is when the event happens quickly coz its hard to retain memory of the event... (the disciples of Jesus report Jesus eating and drinking with them and with them for a long period of time and even engaging in conversation with them , Acts10:41, Luke 24:26-49, John 21:1-4)... when someone is really expecting it such as people actually looking for big-foot or aliens ufos or if they are stranded and actually look for any near helicopters and start tricking their minds into seeing such things .. (the disciples were never expecting a dying messiah as the messiah would live forever, and never expecting a dying and rising God, this is so foreign to them, when their messiah died, it was like end game for them, especially dying on a cross, this is like end game for them....... and all the accounts embarrassingly report that the disciples had miss-understood the scriptures and what Jesus had claimed Mark 8:31-32 , Matt 16:21-23 , Luke 24:10-11 , Acts 1:6 , John 20:9) so they defs weren't expecting Jesus to rise from death, as even Thomas is reported not believing........ Plus the disciples all knew each-other and they knew Jesus so this event didn't happen with strangers...
But even if you write off the gospels as later myths.... we still have early creeds and oral sermons handed down which report these as-well (1 Corinthians 15:3-7 , Acts 2:32 , Acts 10:41 )
All the evidence really points to the disciples had to experience something...
Paul also passes down a creed as he received and passes down to others as-well...
1 Corinthians 15:3-7 New International Version (NIV)
3 For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Cephas, and then to the Twelve. 6 After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles,
Plus the disciples all claim that they seen Jesus together, so if you want to claim it was a hallucination... group hallucinations don't happen.... even if you take the gospels as later myths.... there is still the early creed reporting that Jesus appeared to the group, and early sermons in Acts which report Jesus eating and sitting with the disciples (Acts 10:34-43).... As Bart Ehrman also says "I dont doubt at all that some disciples claimed this,... Paul, writing about twenty five years later, indicates that this is what they claimed, and i don't think he is making it up...
So group hallucinations are improbable as they definitely did report that Jesus appeared in group settings (1 Corinthians 15:3-7 , Acts 2:32 ; 13:30-32) and multi sensory over a period of time (Acts 10:34-43 ; 22:7-9 ; 26:12-18)
Also the narratives embarrassingly portray the disciples as cowardly running away for their lives when Jesus was going to be crucified.... (Matthew 26:31-35, 56 ; Mark 15:50 ; John 20:19 ) they even doubted the reports of the women (Luke 24:11, John 20:24-28) and when they first saw Jesus they were frightened (Luke 24:37-38)..... What this shows is that it cant be an hallucination, as hallucinations happen when someone really expects it but they weren't expecting a dying and rising Messiah God, that was foreign to them, and they definitely didn't expect Jesus to rise again and reported to be frightened when they apparently seen the Risen Christ...
Plus, all independent sources all claim the same thing about Jesus, is that He was in a bodily resurrected body, where he looks sort of like himself but slightly different and his body has new powers that they didn't have before (1 Corinth 15, luke 24, john 20-21 , Matthew 28)
The hallucination theory just doesn't fit, and even if you discount the gospels as unreliable, you still have to account for the early christians and the disciples all reporting a bodily resurrection and not a spiritual appearance...... the first christians are familiar with visions and claimed to have some... yet... they never said the appearances of Christ as mere visions... they firmly believe it was a bodily physical appearance... and that is what they preached from the beginning... ... as even sceptical scholar Gerd Ludemann quotes - we have no sound way to place the symbolic interpretation of Jesus' resurrection within the context of earliest christian resurrection beleif - Gird Ludemann
so since the appearances were in group settings, multi-sensory, do not vary, were not interpreted to be spiritual early on, weren't expecting it and weren't exited when seeing Jesus.... its pretty easy to dismiss hallucination theory
Plus Jesus appearances to skeptics.... James and the brothers (like Jude) of Jesus were not his followers before his crucifixion (John 7:5; Mark 3:31-35)
Examples of scholars who Accept this: Betz, Conzelmann, Craig, Derret, Ehrman, Funk, Hoover, Kee, Koester, Ladd, Lorenzen, Ludemann, Meier, Oden, Osborne, Pannenperg, Sanders, Spong, Struhlmacher, Wedderburn Source: The Risen Jesus and the Future Hope, Page 22, 24
And almost unanimously accepted is that Paul was an enemy of the church originally and a later convert... the reason for this is even Paul admits it himself and cites an early creed (Galatians 1:22-23 New International Version (NIV) 22 I was personally unknown to the churches of Judea that are in Christ. 23 They only heard the report: “The man who formerly persecuted us is now preaching the faith he once tried to destroy.”) and even another attestation from Luke the historian in the book of Acts..... it also meets the criteria of embarrassment that he says himself that he was a former persecutor and was in the wrong.........
The same goes for the conversion of James the brother of Jesus.,.. it is clear in the early material of Paul is that the early leader of the church was none other than James the brother of Jesus, (Gal 1:19; 2:9-12; 1 Corinth 15:7) and even Josephus who is outside the christian sources attests this in (Josephus Jewish Antiquities 20.9.1)....... however, all the sources suggests that James didn't believe his brother was the Christ during his early ministry (John 7:5 For even His brothers did not believe in Him., Mark 3:31-35) ........ No early christian would dare to attack a prominent leader in the church by claiming he was once Jesus' enemy.....
James wasnt even mentioned as one of them at the cross present with Jesus... and Jesus also surrendered his own mother to one of the disciples and why not to one of his own brothers if they were in the christian ranks?
(John 19:25-27 25 Now there stood by the cross of Jesus His mother, and His mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene. 26 When Jesus therefore saw His mother, and the disciple whom He loved standing by, He said to His mother, “Woman, behold your son!” 27 Then He said to the disciple, “Behold your mother!” And from that hour that disciple took her to his own home.) this can also explain why most scholars including Bart Ehrman who is an atheist-agnostic accept James and his brothers were early skeptics and only converted after the crucifixion.
So the real question is what happened that turned these apposed to Christianity into believers?
Would they lie? why on earth would they do that?? the early church was a persecuted and hated minority with a messiah who was shamefully crucified as a criminal and they were to poor to afford their own tomb... Jesus has dishonoured the family and James was already opposed to his ministry, why would he lie when there is nothing to gain but shame and dishonour to suddenly reverse and proclaim his brother is Lord after he has already mocked him openly (John 7:1-9)........... Paul also had no reason to try this.. he was on top of his game, a prominent leader on the rise and making a name for himself while he persecuted the church (Philipians 3:4-6)... he had all going for him and suddenly he wants to leave all that and join the small persecuted minority that already hate him?
would you say it was an hallucination? neither of them were grieving especially Paul wasn't, James might have been but certainly wasn't expecting a dying and rising messiah to be his own brother who was just killed, a dying and rising messiah God isn't part of second temple judaism beliefs... in-fact Jesus' death would have supported James and his brothers conviction and supported their belief that Jesus isn't the messiah............. and the possibility that Paul had an hallucination is far more lower than James because usually people have hallucinations when they are grieving the death and expecting it not to be so...
What i'm doing is looking at the surrounding facts that accompany these claimed appearances and see which theory is the most plausible with them,... the theories such as the conspiracy, mythic and hallucination theory just doesn't add up with all the facts... what you would have to do is come up with your explanation of the facts and show which plausible theory accounts for the data..
Another thing that supports the preaching of the bodily resurrection of Jesus is the expectation of the gospel to the surrounding world.. the message of Jesus dying on the cross for our sins may sound warm and loving to us.... but in the ancient world, a culture which thrived on honour and status, such a message would be disgusting and horrendous...... Walter Bauer quotes "The enemies of Christianity always referred to the disgracefulness of the death of Jesus with great emphasis and malicious pleasure. A God or a Son of God dying on a cross! that was enough to put paid on the new religion." Crucifixion page 19)
David De-Silva notes the same thing in his work...'Unlocking New Testament Culture Page 51' "christianity was founded on a premise that should have failed the moment it began"
in such a culture, the christians preached to the gentiles to worship a man that was shamefully executed on a cross... a jewish man..... and romans looked down on jews... a jewish carpenter...... Cicero (A roman statesmen who served as consul in the year 63 BC called carpeting vulgar and compared it to slavery 'De Officiis Liber I XI.II'... on-top of that they preached a physical resurrection to the roman world which was opposed to most pagans...... Even more, the christians placed such high ethical demands on new converts that would of shocked most pagans (no temple prostitutions or extra marital affairs affairs).... morality was radically challenged by christians that flew in the face of most pagans....... the message about Christ was incompatible with the most deeply rooted religious ideology within the gentile world and the roman world....
this is also seen by the christian opponents and how they attacked christianity....
Celcus 177AD ... but if Jesus was really so great, he ought, in order to display his greatness, to have suddenly dissapeared from the cross. Origen: Contra Celsum 68
Even the Jews thought that this message of a crucified messiah was disgraceful.... a messiah who was shamefully crucified and murdered by the roman enemy.... their messiah was to be a conquerer, a king, who would restore an earthly kingdom of Israel and defeat Rome..... Jesus was shamed and disgraced,
So this really does cut the conspiracy theory, Knowing the expectation of the gospel would have no group of conspirators would ever have made it their core doctrine..If you'r going to make a message to gain a following, then make something that is appealing and not something that was expected to fail.....
Also taking into consideration the low status of women in the ancient world, it is unanimously accepted in the ancient world that the testimony of women were not to be accepted...
sources such as : But let not the testimony of women be admitted, on account of the levity and boldness of their sex - Josephus, Antiquities, 4.8.15 ..
.... Any evidence which a women gives is not valid to offer -Talmud, Rosh Hashana 1.8c ..
. Let the words of the law be burned rather than committed to women - Rabbi Eleazar ....
But the disciples preached this in their 4 sources Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, that women were the first and primary witnesses to the empty tomb....... this fact would be embarrassing for the early church and just couldn't be made up, ..... first they admitted they didn't even trust the testimonies of the women..
10 Now it was Mary Magdalene and Joanna and Mary the mother of James and the other women with them who told these things to the apostles, 11 but these words seemed to them an idle tale, and they did not believe them.
Also, all the early sermons in Acts and the Epistles always skip over the fact that women were the first to discover the tomb.,.. (1 Corinth 15, Acts2:22-36 , Acts 19:28-47, Acts 17:22-35, Acts 26:2-23) .... That doesn't contradict the gospels, but they tend to stay silent in this matter in order to make their early case because women aren't deemed to be credible witnesses.. but in the gospels they cant leave the fact out as they are the ones that play a key role in discovering the empty tomb and the first key eye witnesses to the resurrection therefore making their testimony necessary....... and for an ancient writer, this isn't something you would just make up...
Celsus even uses this to try discredit christianity... Celsus (177 AD).. That while alive he was of no assistance to himself, but that when dead he rose again, and showed the marks of his punishment, and how his hands were pierced with nails: who beheld this? a half-frantic woman, as you state, and some other one, perhaps, of those who were engaged in the same system of delusion." Origen: Contra Celsum 2.55
NT wright also says "As historians we are obliged to comment that if these stories had been made up five years later, let alone thirty, forty, or fifty years later, they would never had had Mary Magdalene in this role. To put Mary there is, from the point of view of Christian apologists wanting to explain to a skeptical audience that Jesus really did rise from the dead, like shooting themselves in the foot. But to us as historians this kind of thing is gold dust. The early Christians would never, never have made this up." There is a God Page 207
This fact about the women can only be explained if there really was an empty tomb and the early christians just wouldn't lie about women finding it, if they wanted to lie, men would be better candidates..
Another key evidence is the immediate proclamation in Jerusalem...
Paul mentions this as-well as Tacitus also mentions "Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judæa, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome," Tacitus Analls 15.44
Paul also mentions in his early epistles that the apostles were still preaching in Jerusalem in Galations 2:1,9
IF the evidence wasn't in their favour, then it would of made sense that the early church should of gone elsewhere, as cults often do, cult leaders often round up their followers and take them away from civilisation or take them elsewhere from a place you can be disproven, just like mormonism when Joseph Smith led his people away from new york...
But the Disciples of Jesus went straight to the Sanhedrin in Jerusalem and told them that they crucified their messiah and he has been raised.... if your an imposter then you would go somewhere else to proclaim your miracle, not in Jerusalem where they have the evidence, motives and the means to debunk it...
Could you say its a really really strong group hallucination that convinced the disciples so much that they know theres an empty tomb in the Jerusalem area and they believed they seen and touched the Risen Christ that they preach in Jerusalem?..... you could... but way more improbable .... as if Jesus is truly resurrected, of-course the disciples had the boldness to proclaim it there as God would have been on their side and all the evidence in their favour...
Going to the voluntary suffering of the disciples, coz this is a big part supporting the resurrection of Jesus... and you say "Lots of people willing to die for their convictions."... but you need to understand that their conviction was seeing, touching, talking with the risen Christ...
Multiple attestations of christian and non christian sources attest that early witnesses were persecuted and even martyred for their faith,......Tacitus analls 15.44 (nero persecution), Suetonius 2.51(jews expelled from Rome because of Christus), Josephus antiquities 20.9.1 (James the brother of Jesus was martyred)...
Paul admits intense persecution ... Colossians 1:24, 2 Corinth 11:16-33, Phil 4:12..
Clement of Rome also indicated that Paul and Peter were martyred (1 Clement 5:3-6)
and Paul even boasts about all his sufferings in (2 Corinthians 11:16-33).. and multiple attestations as-well as in Acts and the Epistles that many imprisonments and sufferings the early witnesses endured...
But of-course you would say why are the christians any different? people die for what they believe in all the time... thats true, people do die for some things that are false but they don't die for something they know to be false.... i'm not talking about christians who were martyred, but the disciples and witnesses of Jesus resurrection who died for believing they seen and touched the risen Christ......
The Disciples didn't just die for their beliefs, but for events they claimed had happened and knew very well if they were true or made up, liars make lousy martyrs, when you have nothing to gain, it doesn't make sense to make up and hold on to something that is going to get you nothing....
And the disciples weren't getting much for their new religion..
they were constantly facing persecution: Colossians 1:24; 2 corinthians 11:16-33, Phillipians 4:12; Book of Acts; 1Clement 5:3-6; Annals 15.44; Antiquities 20.9.1 ....
they didn't gain wealth .. 1 Corinth 8; 9,6; 2 Thessalonians 3:8, Acts 24:17
If they were doing it because they were insane and wanting a cult following, then they did some things that did not make any sense... like establishing churches in different regions they didn't have total control over, ... Paul moved from city to city establishing believers and then moving on, ... if your trying to establish a cult in a controlled group of people then you do what cult leaders do, you gather your followers,... remove them from society where there is a threat they will be pulled away by reality, and you keep them very close to keep them brain washed........... the apostles didn't do that, they stayed in populated cities and left their new churches to establish more churches in other cities which leaves your followers vulnerable for corruption...... and if you read the epistles that is what happened, the apostles had to revisit these churches and even write letters to correct them constantly........
it just seems there is nothing to gain in starting christianity unless its a elaborate plan to get martyred... if you say they hallucinated then it must be such a vivid hallucination to convince them that... but as i stated above, that the start of christianity, the preaching of a dying and rising messiah not being made up, and the disciples not expecting Jesus to rise from death .....plus its attested they were frightened when they seen him and not exited as usually hallucinations are when your expecting it so much and get excited when you see what your expecting.... so i doubt it could be such a vivid group hallucination.... but something that convinced them to the point they suffered and died for that belief, could only be attested is if they truly seen and touched the risen Christ.............
FINAL fact.... the existence of the empty tomb..
Skeptical scholar Jacob Kremer says "By far most exegetes hold firmly to the reliability of the biblical statements concerning the empty tomb." Die Osterevangelien Page 49-50
The evidence for the empty tomb is also strong......
Some people think that Jesus wasn't buried in a tomb as John Dominic Crossan thinks that and says the Romans would not allow a proper burial for criminals........... This is simply wrong, as we have a source from Josephus in Jewish War 4.317 that says crucified victims were buried .... and 2 independent early sources that say Jesus was buried in a tomb (Mark 15:42, - 16:8 ; Paul in 1 Corinth 15:3-8)
Also we have archaeological evidence of a crucified victim who received a proper burial (Search on google Yohanan Ben Ha'galgo)....
Jesus burial also meets the criteria of embarrassment since they say he was buried in a tomb of a Sanhedrin member which would have been dishonouring for the followers...... such a group had just murdered their Lord, and now they need to bum a tomb for him from one of the members of those who murdered their Lord?..........
Also the fact that the gospels attest the name of the person who buried Jesus.. Joseph of Arimathea means the tomb was public knowledge and its whereabouts was known, ..... so the public at any time would know about it and readily debunk it if the tomb wasn't empty......... and the account of the empty tomb is also embarrassing as its discovered by women, and as mentioned earlier, this isnt something you would make up...
Matthew also mentions the competing theory when he mentions 'the jews claim the disciples stole the body" (Matt 28)........
Justin Martyr writing later, had to respond to this theory, because it was the official story that the jews were telling people...
"*his disciples stole him by night from the tomb, where he was laid when unfastened from the cross, and now deceive men by asserting that he has risen from the dead and ascended to heaven." -*said by Trypho ..Justin Martyr Dialogue with Trypho Chapter 108
So Justin Martyr writing later, had to respond to this theory, because it was the official story that the jews were telling people... which is an interesting admission, because it says the body cannot be found, if the Sanhedrin still had the body, they could of had the gentiles bring it out for them and show the tomb was never empty..... but the christians never had to respond to this charge (so both sides agree the tomb was empty)...
Also we have the Nazareth Inscription, a stone found in the area and has written on it an Imperial Decree from around 41 AD.. it says...
"EDICT OF CAESAR: It is my decision [concerning] graves and tombs*—whoever has made them for the religious observances of parents, or children, or household members—that these remain undisturbed forever. But if anyone legally charges that another person has destroyed, or has in any manner extracted those who have been buried, or has moved with wicked intent those who have been buried to other places, committing a crime against them, or has moved sepulcher-sealing stones, against such a person I order that a judicial tribunal be created, just as [is done] concerning the gods in human religious observances, even more so will it be obligatory to treat with honor those who have been entombed. You are absolutely not to allow anyone to move [those who have been entombed].* But if [someone does], I wish that [violator] to suffer capital punishment under the title of tomb-breaker."
So it says the penalty for grave robbing is death, which is interesting because its very severe of how romans punished thieving, the romans wouldn't give such a high penalty for stealing something... normally they would need to pay for the damages 2 or 4 fold, and possibly face a flogging.... ......
But this would all make sense with the rise of Christianity and what Suetonius tells us..
Life of claudius 25.4 Since the jews constantly made riots at the instigation of Chrestus, he expelled them from rome
So 1.Some jews in Rome were preaching about Christs resurrection and riots resulted from it.
2 If Jesus tomb was not empty.
- There would be no need for this imperial decree about grave robbing because Rome could just produce the body to dispel the riots.
So it appears to be that from all sides, the body was missing (Jews, Romans, Christians).... either way, theres no evidence the empty tomb was just a fabrication and this is why most scholars today accept the empty tomb
The only theory that accounts for all this data is that Jesus indeed died and resurrected after 3 days....... the conspiracy theory doesn't account for the quality of the testimony of the disciples,...... the empty tomb,.... and why skeptics would join a small persecuted minority.......
the hallucination theory would only work if you posit some pretty miraculous hallucinations that causes the disciples to change their idea, skeptics to convert and posit crazy ideas of a dying and rising messiah no one was expecting or looking for... and a crazy hallucination that the tomb was empty as-well..
The resurrection theory that God raised Jesus from the dead accounts for all the data, it has
1.explanatory scope because it explains all the facts, it has
2.explanatory power as it explains all the facts with the least amount of effort, and
- Illumination, as it offers other areas in history as it offers how christianity truly did start.
"This Christian hypothesis is of greater explanatory scope and power than other hypothesis which try to account for the relevant evidence, but is less plausaible and more ad hoc than they are." C Behan Mccullagh in his book Justifying Historical Descriptions Page 21.
Ofcourse there has been replies and arguments about if it really is less plausible and more ad hoc.... because it makes one more supposition..... (That God exists)....
I believe the hallucination theory cant account for multiple sensory hallucinations and group hallucinations and that they were so powerful that the disciples took it to their death and suffered for it.... plus a mass city hallucination of an empty tomb....
The conspiracy theory wants us to believe a bunch of frightened followers of Jesus , stole the body in secret in an over crowded city, to make up a story they weren't expecting and wasn't inline with jewish messianic expectations in order to get themselves martyred, and some of the skeptics decided to join this persecuted minority for no reason at all..
The resurrection theory only allows us to add the assumption that God exists, so it isn't more ad hoc than the other theories, and there are many arguments for the existence of God,...
If one insists on a naturalistic world view, and leaves no reason for theism being a possibility, then they can say the resurrection theory is improbable, but that also argues from a presupposition and not being open to evidence regardless of how one feels about it....
So the resurrection theory is more plausible and less ad hoc than the rest of the theories.... the evidence is mounted and that is why the non christian Anthony Flew was bold enough to say
"The evidence for the ressurection is better than for claimed miracles in any other religion. Its outstandingly different in quality and quantity - Anthony Flew "
The resurrection theory is the only theory that accounts for all the data and being less ad hoc and more plausible than the rest, its evidence is mounted, as Paulo Frederickson admitted "They must have seen something", and all the evidence favours that what they saw was the risen Christ.