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Spring 2020 Community Update & Survey: RESULTS
Let's jump straight in:
DemographicsAge: About 40% of us are in our 30s, with some higher and some lower.
Gender: Based on this sample we identify, somewhat unsurprisingly, as 90.7% female, with male a distant 6.2%, and with a shoutout to our 3.1% non-binary crew.
Marital Status: About half of us are married, though, surprisingly, a quarter of us are not engaged and have never been married.
General Location: Probably no one will be surprised to hear a good 3/4 of us are in the U.S., and very very few of us are in non-Western countries.
Who do we post about? Well, almost 3/4 of us don't make our own posts. Which aligns with our previous survey, where the overwhelming amount of users answered that our purpose for being here is to offer support to others.
Mod TeamHow has our modding changed since the last time we checked in with y'all in December? About 1/4 of you said we're doing about the same, slightly less than 10% say we're sucking it up worse, but a lovely 65%-ish said we're doing some degree of noticeably better, which is mega dandy.
How would you rate the current mod team? Average rating is a 7.3/10, versus the 7.0/10 we got last time, which is fine by us!
Community HealthHow are we doing on censorship? With 1 being too strict, 10 being not strict enough, and 5 being a perfect score. Pretty close to half of us consider us to be at a perfect balance, but what's interesting is that the responses that lean either one way or the other are nearly a mirror image. This reflects a lesson we've learned continually as time goes on--for every user who feels things should be a certain way, there is another who feels the exact opposite. But we will continue to do our best to find a balance.
We reduced our ban rate by about 60%, and people seem to like it. Same with our removal rate.
Regarding out removals of stolen content, a slight majority think we should not remove stolen posts if the OP wants them to stay up. Actions to be taken: We really don't want to be inviting more attention over here, so our latest policy will be this: If your post is stolen but you want it back up, we'll put it back up; however, users may not publicly give permission for others to use their content. We can't stop people from doing whatever they're going to do in their DMs, but we're not cool with it on the sub. We're still discussing it so we haven't updated any rules or the wiki, but that's where we're at right now, at least.
Potential Rule UpdatesThere have been a few requests recently to add "ok boomer" to our list of censored slurs. Should we? About 3/4 of us said no. Actions to be taken: None necessary.
Should we allow duplicate MIL nicknames? The "no" group won out, but not by much over the "sometimes no" group. Actions to be taken: We'll adopt "common sense" as our official policy. I know, you're skeptical that we have such a thing, but we can probably pull it off.
Should we ban MIL nicknames that reference substance abuse? Just under 3/4 said no. Actions to be taken: None necessary. We do want to be cautious of mocking addiction, but we find there is a fine line between that and referencing substance abuse.
Should we just ban nicknames entirely? That's a big NO. Which we expected, but it's come up a few times (including within the mod team) so we thought we should take a proper reading. Actions to be taken: None necessary.
Should we add "Racism" to the 'must have a trigger warning' list? A little more than half chose "Only if the post includes violence or slurs." Actions to be taken: Sure, we can do that.
Should we be removing references to politics? More than half of us said "No," but a large chunk also said political discussion should be removed, which seems fair. Actions to be taken: We'll remove it if it's, like, really dragging the OP's thread off topic. We're really supposed to be there for them, remember.
Would you support us in changing the default sorting for comments to "new"? A whopping 78.4% of us said YES, which was surprising. Actions taken: Okay, we changed the setting. We'll see how it goes!
Crowd-sourcing: Fake Stories (AKA Potential Rule Updates, Cont'd)Should we filter "popcorn," "saga," epic," and "cast"? All of them were a NO, albeit "cast" by only a very small margin and the rest by not that large of a margin either. Actions to be taken: None. Please don't use the phrase "cast of characters" though; we don't care for it.
Should we make it a rule that others cannot suggest nicknames to the OP? A solid 3/5 of us said nah. Actions to be taken: Mostly none, though sometimes the OP says they don't want nickname suggestions so we'll support them on that.
Should we add text to botinlaw's autocomment that says "Please remember this is an international subreddit. Laws and culture vary significantly. Something may not ring true for you but you are looking at it from your own cultural and country view point. Don't assume OP is from the same country/region/state."? Just over 3/4 said we should. Actions to be taken: Will do.
Should we up the limit on posting from every 24 hours to 3 times per week? No. Actions to be taken: None necessary.
User Comment ResponsesThank you again to everyone who took the time to leave a comment! Each open-response question got an average of 25-ish responses (a large portion of which were support and/or encouragement, which was a delight), and we'll do our best to respond to what we can here. Most of the below comments express a sentiment that we saw more than a couple of times. If you left a comment on the survey that you would like addressed, you're welcome to bring it up in this thread.
Keep on keepin' on! I've noticed and like that more content is removed by the community, as opposed to being curated according to the mod. Thanks for working so hard to make this place awesome.Thanks! We have been trying to let the community decide how grey-area posts and comments should be handled more often, and we think we're seeing positive results. Our goal is to act as janitors, not curators.
Watch the ableism!We're happy to hear more on this, if anyone wants to chime in. The members of our mod team represent a wide variety of abilities (both us ourselves and our children), but if we can do better then we would love more specific feedback here. Do keep in mind, however, that just because you see something posted doesn't mean the mod team is "allowing" it. It can take awhile for us to catch something, especially if it's taken awhile for anyone to report it.
Enforce the rules the same for everyone, not selectively. The rules around coronavirus postings (when the rule was still in place) is the latest example.Modding this sub involves perhaps mostly grey area, and there will never be a time where we are all completely of one mind. We'll continue to do our best. The rules around the coronavirus posting offered no grey area until our recent update, however, so if any posts/comments slipped through at that time it was just a matter of them avoiding the filter.
The whole feel of JNMIL was so much more relaxed and approachable three and four years ago. The changes being made to protect the feelings of the few interfere with the availability of the many. Also, MIL In The Wild posts were such a great stress relief, please bring them back.Agreed on the first point. Growing pains can be a bummer sometimes, but there just no is no getting back there with a sub of this size. We want to be as balanced as we can when it comes to protecting users versus censoring, but that's a toughy that'll never be really perfect.
As for MILitW posts... there are other subs for that sort of thing.
Ban the people from [drama subs] - all they do is accuse posters of being fakers and harrass people and I'd much rather fakers get internet points than someone get falsely accused.That wouldn't do anything, tbh. Banning a user doesn't prevent them from reading the sub.
please feed bippy, i get the feeling a hungry bippy is like a hungry bunny- anything and anyone is game. jokes aside yall are greatWe'll try, but not after midnight.
The short answer is add more mods. It might be helpful to base it on subscriber numbers. Like, one more for each 100k users. But only if you have good applicants. I've moderated an online community of 100k active users and some of my co-volunteers were assholes on a power trip, and I think you've mostly addressed that.Adding new people, and determining whether they're trustworthy (and/or active) is a shockingly long and arduous process, but we're getting better at it, I think. Our current mod team is small and half of us are on a leave of absence, but everyone's pleasant af to work with, so that's nice.
Have mods patrolling new/hot. It seems like all the new mods being talked about are just the programmers and no one is actively reading. And one mod actively reading new is not enough either.Fair. I know some of us do this sometimes but mostly we end up going off user reports. We'll start encouraging this as we continue to grow the mod team.
Just let us be sarcastic against these women! Sometimes it's good to say these things to internet strangers, obviously we're not going to act on them.Reddit policy is really strict on violence, and we want to discourage stuff like ableism, but other than that we're trying!
Mass deletions should probably require a second mod opinion. I did have a bad experience with a mod misreading and deleting dozens of comments for a reason I felt was not merited given what was actually said, not what they extrapolated. (Indirectly involved a hot button issue, but the advice was not about said issue.) I felt the mod wayyyy overstepped. Especially given that the advice deleted was standard for this sub.This is a great suggestion and we're adding it as a policy update immediately. Thanks!
Be careful about people who scream about racism and any other form of bigotry. We live in a day and age in which people who didn't care for Black Panther will be called racist, and people who didn't watch the Ghostbusters remake will be called sexist. People who behave that way are going to raise the most hell over a post in which the toxic MIL happens to be, for example, HIspanic.It's true that, if a post ever mentions a MIL's race/nationality/religion/etc in any context, there will be at least one person reporting it as racist/etc. Which invariably leads to a long internal discussion, which may or may not lead to visible results for the users.
But the new Ghostbusters was good and I'll fight anyone who says otherwise.
Read the threads, you know when they’re pushing the line. We all see the fat comments, the poor comments.There are thousands of comments a day, so, no, we don't all see these comments. Even if we had a large mod team we wouldn't see all the comments. But we do see user reports fairly quickly, depending on the time it's reported.
I'd like to see comments removed/edited that refer to JNs being bad simply because of their age or having gone through menopause ("dried up hag")We had a long discussion about the "menopause" comments a few months ago and have been removing them. We'll discuss adding the word to our alerts, now that you mention it. Other age-ist commentary we'll have to discuss further. We don't want to bar people from snarky venting--that's half the point of the sub. Ageism in particular came up a lot in the comments, so if anyone would like to discuss this further, please do chime in.
This is a support sub, so to prevent karma farmers just wanting to tell everyone they’re awesome you should disable comments for no advice wanted posts. They don’t want advice they want validation and if you remove that incentive it will stop some karma farmers.This is a support sub first, and an advice sub second.
Add a reporting option for fakes.The report options are tied to the rules, and we're trying to keep our rules list to a minimum. There is an "Other" option where you can put a custom response though.
No suggestions, users need to stop taking fake stories so personally. Fake stories are not posted AT them, the cost is only that they were moved to care a little for someone who didn’t deserve it. Fakers, at their core, are sad people. They have nothing better to do than to craft elaborate stories for internet points. It’s pathetic, but it doesn’t really affect my life in a meaningful way. I agree with everything the mods outlined in the explanation above, demanding that users essentially doxx themselves just so someone doesn’t accidentally read a piece of fiction goes way too far (and you guys have enough unpaid work to do without adding on to it).I just really like this comment.
I've noticed users stories mimic or seem exaggeratedly close to TV plots- is there a way to screen for thatI can't begin to imagine how, tbh. But we do welcome users to modmail us their concerns about users, and we do look into those concerns.
Fear mongering rules need more strict enforcementThis rule was originally designed to curb the unwarranted jumps to "She's going to kidnap/murder your baby!" Sometimes those jumps are reasonable. It's one of those big grey areas, though, so we'll have to keep working on it.
I want to share my story to help me process it; I'm going to be starting therapy soon, and I have a feeling it's going to shake a lot loose. I am VERY anxious that parts of my story will trigger accusations that I'm making it up. (I have severe anxiety as it is.) I would very much like to know that if I even see that type of comment start, that there is a process in place for me to immediately "stand up for myself" (something I have trouble with, because being raised by Ns, I'm ALWAYS "wrong and oversensitive") and seek to prove what I can. Otherwise, I know myself well enough to know that the invalidation will shoot my anxiety to 11, and I'll ghost. I'm perfectly happy to get constructive criticism... just don't freaking call me a liar or an exaggerator about what I've lived. (And some of it, especially the last few years, is out there. And somewhat similar to another poster who I've observed being heavily harassed. Problem is, my "outcome" if you will, has been more positive/optimistic - and I expect that would get even more disbelief.)We want to be able to help with situations like this, but we also want to be realistic about what we can do. We can't preemptively stop people from leaving shitty comments most of the time. We also cannot stop people from sending shitty DMs. We do remove shitty comments as soon as we're able, so our recommendation in cases like these is, if you see a shitty comment to report it and then leave the thread be for a bit. Or send us a modmail and we can follow up with you directly. In the case of the later, please be sure to reference specific comments, though, because it does happen sometimes where an OP messages us about users leaving rude comments but all the comments in the thread seem fine.
I feel like BotinLaw might often be on the fritz? I’d love it if there was a temporary stickied post that alerted us to that fact, like “experiencing technical difficulties, back online shortly”If it's not working then that just means one of us needs to restart it. If it's been not working for a few hours then it just means that we haven't noticed yet, or that all of the people with the password are AFK.
Thank you again for all of the lovely, sometimes amusing, and often thought-provoking comments! Again, please do comment below if there's any further discussion you would like to have at this time. We've gotten into the habit of starting next season's survey immediately after the current, so we're happy to receive any kind of suggestions.
Regardless, take care of yourselves and stay well!
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