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/r/singapore - "Christians who used to go to church but no longer do, what drove you away? How did you explain to your leaders/cell mates that you wanted to leave?"
|Submission||Christians who used to go to church but no longer do, what drove you away? How did you explain to your leaders/cell mates that you wanted to leave?|
|Comments||Christians who used to go to church but no longer do, what drove you away? How did you explain to your leaders/cell mates that you wanted to leave?|
|Posted On||Wed Aug 05 09:01:28 UTC 2020|
|Score||69||as of Fri Aug 07 08:59:37 UTC 2020|
Started going to church in 2017 cause of a friend, was added to a cell group. Been somewhat of a lurker since then, only going for service/cell occasionally (i barely go now).
Why do i want to leave?
I feel v fake/superficial when i attend service. As in, i can theorectically understand what is being preached and all but i really can't feel it. So i feel v disconnected from the cell group and religion as a whole. Also, the church i currently attend is a megachurch known for its concert-like services which don't really speak to me. I feel more comfortable in traditional churches (though also not that comfortable la lol)
Problem now is, i don't know how to break it to my cell mates and leader that i intend to leave. I think they also can tell, given that i haven't been joining any meetings for some time now. But its going to be super awkward coz i'll still see them around in school lol
Curious what were your experiences with regard to leaving church?
Related Comments (5):
|Posted On||Thu Aug 06 00:45:03 UTC 2020|
|Score||4||as of Fri Aug 07 08:59:37 UTC 2020|
How was the Christian message shared to you that made you stay in the first place (even for a very short while)? What did you understand of it?In every service without fail, there will be a small session at the end with instrumental music and the pastor emphasizing how the Lord gave up his only Son on the cross so that us who have sinned can be offered salvation, He is our saviour and wants to be with us but we must first take the first step and seek him etc. I felt touched and hence drawn to Christianity, but i'm always unsure whether it's just a result of human emotions getting stirred when you hear of someone making great sacrifices for you, or whether that msg really spoke to my heart.
I guess i stayed because church was like a place of comfort to me where i could seek solace. The usual 'God is good, He has great plans for you but you have to go through the lows first for you to feel His presence in your life, prayer works wonders, ask and you shall receive His grace, it's not so much your own abilities but rather what God can do in your life'. It's like a support group with a belief that there's a higher power out there working for you, answering your prayers, and in short, giving you hope. That drew me in even further because i was in a rather dark season, and it felt great to have something to believe in
Anyway, i could always theorectically understand what the pastor was preaching, but it's always felt like God exists only in my brain. I say this bc i only seek him out when i need it, and have never felt spiritually drawn to do christian stuff like bible study, watch sermons etc. I pray, and am always happy but skeptical when there are results bc im not sure whether to attribute it to sheer luck/my own abilities/Christ. Many other ppl in my church speak of this divine encounter with Christ, how He gives them visions, speaks to them in prayer etc but i've never experienced any of this, so i've come to a conclusion that i've never encountered or truly understood Christ. Probably bc of faults of my own, having not enough of a sincere heart to seek him out. But i honestly have no idea how to achieve that, much less a desire to do so in my current situation
|Posted On||Thu Aug 06 02:36:01 UTC 2020|
|Score||3||as of Fri Aug 07 08:59:37 UTC 2020|
Anyway, i could always theoretically understand what the pastor was preaching, but it's always felt like God exists only in my brain. I say this bc i only seek him out when i need it, and have never felt spiritually drawn to do christian stuff like bible study, watch sermons etc. I pray, and am always happy but skeptical when there are results bc im not sure whether to attribute it to sheer luck/my own abilities/ChristLol, this feels too darn real. I too, have difficulty in experiencing the spiritual/supernatural aspect of the faith. I also have a hard time accepting a lot of the stuff in the bible (cough Genesis cough). But I still cling to the faith though, for a couple of reasons:
- I've come to the point where I care very little about supposed divine/supernatural power. I believe that the true power of Christianity lies in the mundane. The fellowships/communities/support that is built (if genuine and sincere). Obviously, from the other replies, the faith is rife with hypocrites and bad actors. But think for a moment, the core tenet of mundane Christianity: Don't be a self righteous, judgmental prick. And always try to value others and even mend broken relationships. This is the part that really speaks to me.
- I've also come to realize that these sort of ideal communities and relationships don't spawn by themselves. People have to come together to actually build them. Even if they fail from time to time. But as long as people attempt to keep the core tenet that I mentioned above, and try to keep mending things, we will end up with a better world. This is why I stay on. These communities are the "Kingdom of God" that I believe in.
|Posted On||Thu Aug 06 03:54:37 UTC 2020|
|Score||5||as of Fri Aug 07 08:59:37 UTC 2020|
Witnessing Christianity as a whole has been interesting. From the perspective of a relatively faithful Christian to a currently more skeptical agnostic, I must say that Christianity as a whole is so complex.
There are so many denominations, beliefs, and approaches to living a "Godly" life that it can be befuddling as to what the truth actually is. Everyone seems to either depend on their interpretation (with the supposed guidance of the Holy Spirit) of the Bible or readily accept the dogmatic "truths" provided by the leaders of their church. There may be conflicting views on issues ranging from the partaking of communion, the usage of tongues, etc.
Everyone views Christianity differently, and to the best of my knowledge (forgive me if I am wrong), I think that Christianity to many is a religion or a way of life which is subscribed to. And with this lifestyle, comes a community and the comfort which it can provide. Everyone is socialized to accept certain truths and to depend on one another. Sometimes, providing alternative views may cause ostracism which some of the other posts have pointed out.
From young, I was told that Christianity should be more than attending church or subscribing to a superficial way of life (attending church, memorizing bible verses, or reading the bible without much profound understanding). Instead it should be about having a daily walk with and dependence on God. Asking critical and provocative questions should be invited, because answering such questions could potentially strengthen your understanding and relationship with God. Daily bible reading and prayer is also imperative for a personal development in understanding the word of God instead of merely listening to what others say.
I guess as I started to grow older, I started becoming more skeptical of the existence of a God. Thinking more critically caused me to question and examine the values I was indoctrinated with. After all, children have very impressionable minds, and their views can be easily shaped by their parents and environment. Realizing this made me realize how fragile our perceived "truth" can be.
I started to question the Bible. Why would I base all of my core beliefs on a book with uncertain origins? And also, why does it seem that everyone appears to interpret it so differently? What interpretations should I base my life upon? Should I base my understanding on my own interpretations?
I had a conversation with my mother who (thankfully) was understanding. She's been a christian for most of her adult life and has spent a lot of time serving as a leader in a bible study fellowship. I have expressed my doubts to her before, and she is usually happy when I convey them. To her it is good that I have questions, because it shows that I am maturing and serves to improve my understanding of God. In essence, she told me that God will enable me to interpret the Bible the way God wants me to if I readily seek God. So ultimately, from this I guess that in a rather roundabout way your belief in the Bible and its teachings primarily depends on your faith in God, because without faith, the Bible might as well be another story book. However, since I am still highly doubtful of the existence of a God, I can't really say that I am a Christian or believe in its teachings, and because of that I often don't see much of a point of attending church.
It is interesting to read the other posts, and to see how other Christian communities can be like. It seems to me that some Christians may impose their own beliefs on others and mistakenly extrapolate Christianity or its teachings to support their own beliefs. This can be extremely scary in my opinion.
If there is a God, it appears that some may claim to be Christian, but may not have much have an understanding or guidance from God. I have spoke to other Christians whom I trust about this, and they agree that there are many Christians who are growing in their walk and may have a much more superficial or misguided understanding of things.
There are various types of Christians and churches with differing views and some may unfortunately misrepresent the rest, and I suppose this is common in other religions, cultures, and groups of people too.
Sorry for my ramblings. I hope it provides some insight into the religion from my perspective and answers the question as well.
|Posted On||Wed Aug 05 17:06:14 UTC 2020|
|Score||8||as of Fri Aug 07 08:59:37 UTC 2020|
Like the others here, we’ve all had our share of “fake Christians”, but I’ve never once felt that it was my place to judge the authenticity of anyone’s character. That was after all, for god to judge and not me. Even now, I will say that many Christians are far too pre-occupied with the righteousness of their fellow Christians. This is something I still do not understand. I concerned myself only with my own moral judgement and decision making. So this aspect of being judgemental has never really bothered me.
I was a pretty devout Christian myself, being baptised, praying several times a day, and even teaching sabbath school and giving bible study.
Evidently, leaving Christianity was not an easy decision. I believed wholeheartedly for nearly two decades that my entire reason for existing was based upon being a “servant to god, and a friend to man”.
And so, I got into apologetics and engaged frequently in debates with non-believers. I felt that it was my responsibility to defend my faith. How else could I prove that I wasn’t a gullible fool? How else could I proselytise if I didn’t fully understand my own religion?
I then spent copious hours studying religious debates. Familiarising myself with popular works of other apologists. Delving into philosophy, specifically that of Kierkegaard. Even now, I remain confident of my ability to convince the average person of the legitimacy of Christianity.
Buuut long story short, i couldn’t defend my faith for long. While I held my own in debates, I realised I couldn’t stand up to my own arguments. I simply couldn’t defend my religion and my belief system anymore. I could’ve stayed intellectually dishonest, cherry picking my facts and engaging in confirmation bias. But I simply could no longer bear to do so. There were/are simply too many problems with Christianity, or mainstream religions of any kind to justify them from a reasonable standpoint.
In the Christian context, “losing one’s faith” is akin to losing one’s way. But to me, it felt like I was seeing the world the world as it is for the first time; almost as if I was put under a spell, and had only just woken up. I will never forget the day that last drop of faith left my system. I used to look up in the night sky and imagine god to be watching down from above. But this one night, I looked up and all I could see was the vastness of space, and I realised the objective insignificance of my being. I was just like every other unexceptional human being on this planet, and there wasn’t some omnibenevolent being deeply concerned with my existence.
Anyway, the lack of belief hasn’t affected my relationships much. My siblings are also non-religious, and my religious friends respect that I no longer hold the same beliefs. I also do not align myself with aggressive atheism, and have no intention of convincing others to take my position.
At least Christianity introduced me to the golden rule/ethic of reciprocity, and that’s a principle that I still abide by.
|Posted On||Wed Aug 05 16:37:15 UTC 2020|
|Score||10||as of Fri Aug 07 08:59:37 UTC 2020|
So win-win situation, no need for coop up at home, sister is entertained, I get to finally spend time with friends, why not right?
In the beginning, everything was sunshine and love, you have fun and games every special occasion. Praise and worship was like a concert, jumping up and down like grasshoppers prancing to its death. On the surface, things were great.. Until the ~fire nation~devil attacked, according to them. *cue screams and hellfire
They started to guilt trip all of us for not loving God enough and saying that we love the world more just bcuz we want to hang out with our other classmates which was our daily routine. “You can only serve one master” the pastor would quote.
There was one occasion, this poor guy fell asleep during sermon bcuz he had to work 6 days a week, rushed to attend service after his work. The pastor threw the duster at him for “disrespecting” God.
Well, disrespect then seems logical to me since I was taught that we shouldn’t wear our Buddha amulets to bathe when I was young. #logic?
Few years later, I managed to pick up playing the piano, and they were once again trippin’ ppl saying that we should rise up and lead the church like the Apostles did.
Those who stayed on eventually rose, like how yeast does to flour to make bread.. As cell group leader interns (CGIs), the weekend routine wasn’t the killer, in fact it was the commitment we were thrown into that drove us mad.
Monday morning Prayer> Wednesday Cell Group > Thursday Band Practice> Friday Fasting day > Saturday Service + leaders meeting till late night 3am latest > Sunday 8am Bible Study
Anyone who complained was being shot down on the spot and then highlighted during sermon that they were unteachable, the pastor can do it so can you kind of psycho ritual.
“Carnally”, it looks like this - recruitment drive, celebrate success due to increased headcount, people leave as they saw thru the bullshit, guilt trips via sermons, motivated again via words of “encouragement”, back to recruitment drive again.
Another breaking point was, the pastor went into some MLM business and dragged some members into it. He told the members that joining this coffee thingy would help them financially and also aid in building the church via tithing.
Those who joined never recoup or even break even for their purchase as sales was really hard.
My last straw was drawn when after 2 back to back Christmas service. Damn tired and famished I was as I am in the band and also Christmas skit.
That day I brought my friend and her daughter along, promised to go for late dinner after the service ended at 10pm.
Lo and behold, I was told that my pastor wants to meet me to get me to commit that I will stay in the church for one year AFTER the dinner.
He got one of his church leader to accompany me to the dinner and drove me back to church just to meet him to discuss on that matter.
It was then I realise I was in a “cult” more than a church.
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