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On Kaminsod's origin: my findings so far
...as for where The Crippled god is from, yeah, there are some pretty strong hints in the series... and you are welcome to go find themHis comment comes from u/Grindingstone question presented in this post.
Since I've been researching the subject for some time now, I concluded that it was a good moment to release my findings in this format( I didn't think there was any interest in this kind of pursuit, but I've been proven wrong).
- What's on text
TCG talks to his priest Munug:
The god hissed. ‘Nor should you expect it! Not in this life, not in the thousand others you are doomed to endure before you attain salvation – assuming you have suffered enough to have earned it!’
- Kaminsod is talking about a cycle of reincarnation here, that eventually leads to salvation earned by suffering
Were all of the jade giants appearing somewhere in his own realm? That seemed impossible. They would be present in countless locations, if that was the case. Present, and inescapably visible. No, the wound was enormous, the giants diminishing into specks before reaching its waiting oblivion. A wound such as that could swallow thousands of worlds. Tens, hundreds of thousands.Heboric's visions inside the Jade Giant
There were voices roaring through his skull. Too many, in languages he could not recognize, much less comprehend.
Then a string of words reached through the tumult, close as if whispered in his ear, and he understood them. ‘You came from there. What shall we find, Handless One? What lies beyond the gash?’
Then another voice spoke, louder, more imperious: ‘What god now owns your hands, old man? Tell me! Even their ghosts are not here — who is holding on to you? Tell me!’
‘There are no gods,’ a third voice cut in, this one female.
‘So you say!’ came yet another, filled with spite. ‘In your empty, barren, miserable world!’
‘Gods are born of belief, and belief is dead. We murdered it, with our vast intelligence. You were too primitive—’
‘Killing gods is not hard. The easiest murder of all. Nor is it a measure of intelligence. Not even of civilization. Indeed, the indifference with which such death-blows are delivered is its own form of ignorance.’
‘More like forgetfulness. After all, it’s not the gods that are important, it is the stepping outside of oneself that gifts a mortal with virtue—’
‘Kneel before Order? You blind fool—’
‘Order? I was speaking of compassion—’
‘Fine, then go ahead! Step outside yourself, Leandris! No, better yet. Step outside.’
‘Only the new one can do that, Cassa. And he’d better be quick about it.’
- The followers of TCG speak "many languages".
- "your barren miserable world" so either TCG's followers come from different worlds, or this is a figure of speech. A different "world" would be, for instance, a time period with a different zeitgeist.
- There's an atheist among them. "we killed our gods" and "you were too primitive". Sounds pretty Nietzschean to me, like what someone in the Renaissance or during the Scientific revolution would say to an ancient greek.
- Cassa and Leandris. Cassandra and Leander? Greek names? Are his followers, at least in part, of greek origin?
On the landscape before him was a vast city, rising up from a level plain with tiered gardens and raised walkways. A cluster of towers rose from the far side, reaching to extraordinary heights. Farmland reached out from the city’s outskirts in every direction for as far as Brys could see, strange shadows flowing over it as he watched. He pulled his gaze from the scene and looked down, to find that he stood on a platform of red-stained limestone. Before him steep steps ran downward, row upon row, hundreds, to a paved expanse flanked by blue-painted columns. A glance to his right revealed a sharply angled descent. He was on a flat-topped pyramid-shaped structure, and, he realized with a start, someone was standing beside him, on his left. A figure barely visible, ghostly, defying detail. It was tall, and seemed to be staring up at the sky, focused on the terrible dark wound. [...] Brys saw that a massive stone carving had come to rest there. A bizarre beast-like human, squatting with thickly muscled arms reaching down the front, converging with a two-handed grip on the penis. Shoulders and head were fashioned in the likeness of a bull. A second set of legs, feminine, were wrapped round the beast-man’s hips, the platform on which he crouched cut, Brys now saw, into a woman’s form, lying on her back beneath him. From nearby rose the clatter of scores of clay tablets – too distant for Brys to see if there was writing on them, though he suspected there might be – skidding as if on cushions of air before coming to a rest in a scattered swath. Fragments of buildings – cut limestone blocks, cornerstones, walls of adobe, wattle and daub. Then severed limbs, blood-drained sections of cattle and horses, a herd of something that might have been goats, each one turned inside out, intestines flopping. Dark-skinned humans – or at least their arms, legs and torsos.
‘A god, Brys Beddict. In its own realm, it was locked in a war. For there were rival gods. Temptations …’
- This is a description of the realm from which TCG came.
- The city seems to fit Babylon: the tiered gardens=hanging gardens of babylon, the pyramid in which Brys stands= a ziggurat, they also had blue dye applied to walls or columns, and them having tablets to scribe seems plausible.
- The minotaur-like sculpture flies over my head.
‘Its body is very far away indeed. I was granted an image of the flesh – a human, as far as I could tell, which is in itself rather extraordinary. I was able to capture the soul due to its heightened meditative state, one in which the detachment is very nearly absolute. I doubt the original body draws breath ten times a bell. A most spiritual individual, Crone.’ The Great Raven returned her attention to the apparition. Studied its jade eyes, its jagged traceries of crackling filaments, pulsing like a slowed heart. ‘And you know, then,’ she said. ‘Yes. The demon is from the realm of the Fallen One. His birthplace.’ ‘Meditating, you say. Seeking its god?’ ‘That seems likely,’ Baruk murmured. ‘Reaching, touching … recoiling.’
- So the followers of TCG meditate.
- They meditate to "seek their god".
- It mentions detachment. What religion meditates to detach from everything?
- The follower of TCG is essentially having an Out-of-body experience
‘What you ask of me, it is too much. Yes, of course I see the necessity – I may have sickened, even threatened, but magic is not my enemy. It never was. Indeed, I envy its gifts to this world. Upon my own … ah, no matter. Belief can be rotten. All it takes is one betrayal to steal away an entire future.
‘You would not have recognized me in my anger. It shone blinding bright. There remain those, among the multitudes I left behind, who imagine themselves gods, for all their mortal trappings. They would maintain a tyranny such as no true god could ever imagine. They would enslave generation upon generation – all those sharing the same soil, the same water, the same air. They conspire to keep them on their knees. Bowed in servitude. And each slave, measuring his or her life, can see – if they dare – only the truth, and so most of my world, most of my children, live a life of despair and suffering, and ever growing rage.
‘Is this all there must be? The tyrants would have it so. I sometimes dream … yes, I know you have little time … I dream of returning, swords blazing with holy vengeance. I dream, Shadowthrone, of murdering every one of those fuckers. Is this what it means to be a god? To be an implacable weapon of justice?
‘Wouldn’t that be nice. I agree.
‘No, I’m not that much of a fool. It will be no different. And should you achieve the impossible with your handful of mortals, should you free me … and find the path, the moment I take my first step upon the soil of my home they will emasculate me. Bleed me. Gut me, and then stretch my hide overhead. They’ll need shade from the torrid heat of all the fires they themselves lit. That is the problem with tyrants, they outlive us all.
‘No, I don’t either. Betrayers never do.
‘Shadowthrone. You will not betray me, will you?’
- Slavery, tyranny and despair. People that believe themselves gods.
- A sword blazing with holy vengeance.
‘Where he came from, every god is a Shield Anvil.Observation
The first thing to notice is the premise of the question. Erikson did not say the identity of Kaminsod could be figured out, just where he comes from. So even if we can figure out that Kaminsod comes from a particular culture or mythos in our world, that doesn't guarantee his identity will be uncovered.
What has been proposed
- Baldr. The case was made by u/lost_highlander on his post. My main doubts are: it doesn't explain the greek names, I don't know if a cycle of reincarnations fits in Norse religion, it doesn't fit the jade theme, doesn't fit the atheist follower and finally, for me, it doesn't work thematically.
- Dionysus, proposed by u/CrizzleCrazzle . It fits the greek names of the followers. In greek mythology, there is a tale where he is dismembered and then brought back to life using among other things his heart(like Kaminsod). My doubts are: doesn't work thematically, doesn't fit the jade, doesn't fit reincarnation.
- The Buddha, proposed by myself in a comment to the previous post. What doesn't work, in light of this new evidence: the "you wouldn't know me in my rage", the city described on MT, the Raven association, the greek names of the followers. However, it seems to fit thematically to some degree.
- Marduk: this is just a vague observation. If the city in MT is Babylon, then Marduk is the patron god of that city. Also, in that mythology, Marduk is the defeater of... Tiamat, the dragon goddess of destruction and likely inspiration to Malazan's Tiamatha. It doesn't fit much more as far as I know.
- YHWH/Christ: this one doesn't work at all for me, but it has been proposed.
I think it's beyond reasonable doubt that Kaminsod does come from our world's mythology.
I suspect no deity can fit all these findings: Jade symbolism, Greek named followers, an atheist follower, a deity followed in "many worlds" speaking "many languages" and presumably during a wide period of time, from a city that resembles Babylon, linked to Ravens, compatible with successive reincarnations by which suffering leads to salvation, a Shield anvil aspect, practicing meditation... this is just a guess, I'm not particularly knowledgeable on religions and mythologies.
At this point, I suspect Kaminsod is either a syncretism of (our world's)gods or a deconstruction of the concept in the literary sense.
PD: one of the motivations of this post is to crowd-source this effort. This is what I've come up so far. Having these excerpts and the entire context might be helpful to anyone else interested on this effort.
PD2: just saying, if The Hand Of Kaminsod On Earth comments this post, I'm getting a tattoo(and I've never even considered that in my life).
As usual, any insight is appreciated.
Thanks for reading!
My Pro X vs Pro 7 i5. Benchmarks from X Pro Go & Book 2 & pics
We bought my husband a Surface Pro 7 yesterday – the i5/8/128 model. While I was there, I was overtaken with new computer envy and splurged on a Surface Pro X – also the 8/128. I didn’t really need it, but I have a bonus coming and figured why not. I love Surface and I want to see what’s next. For context so you know what my biases are I am a huge Surface fan and have used them exclusively since the Pro 2. Right now, in this house we have a Pro 2, Pro 3, 2 Gos, Book 2, Pro 7, and now the X. I am also very pro Windows 10 and new stuff. I prefer UWP apps and the store whenever possible. I email developers and send feedback when they stay on legacy stuff. I am all in on the MS ecosystem (Onedrive, Outlook, Bing, Edge, etc.) and in the past was a Windows Phone, Band, and Zune user (my Zune 120 is still upstairs.) I am predisposed to being pro Pro X.
As hard as I try I just can’t like this thing. About the only good thing I can say about it is that it looks good in pictures and it feels nice in the hand. Basically, it makes a nice decorative object. But as a computer – for me – it is totally useless. I think maybe it would be good as a computer issued for work if you are like a salesman, or an exec, or an HR person or something. If you can 100% live in a browser and Office it might be all good. And if you travelled for that kind of stuff the size and battery might be nice. But for a developer, musician, gamer, and photo and video dilettante its just not useful.
So far most of the apps I use for creative stuff don’t work. My DAWs and plugins don’t work. Visual Studio will launch but the debugger crashes it. My video editor doesn’t install. And of course no games, not even light games. I can’t picture any of the large creative apps coming to X at all. Adobe will probably ship some stuff eventually but they treat Windows like their crazy old uncle. They’ll stop by and visit, but their focus is on iPad. I can’t picture Pro Tools or Lightworks or Ableton or FL Studio, or even the Cyberlink stuff coming to ARM64.
The one impressive high mark was that WSL does install and all of the Linux binaries it installs are ARM64. That was cool, and gave me hope. But it was all down hill from there. I could probably use the X for work as I do all my dev work (Node and Ruby) in WSL and VS Code at work, so that might work. But it doesn’t seem worth the hassle, and it wouldn’t be super responsible to do my dev work on a different arch from what we release on. Also, I am not sure if my VPN or remote access stuff (Zoom) would work – I work from home so I need all that stuff to work perfectly.
So, the software situation is dire. I knew it would be bad, but it is really bad. I am definitely not a “live in the browser” person and for me this machine just wont do what I do with computers. And, to editorialize a bit – this seems like an insane move from Microsoft. The last 5-10 years has shown one thing very clearly over and over again: developers will not support Microsoft’s new platforms or initiatives. If this was an Apple device there would already be day one betas or at very least statements from every major developer. (See my note at the end on the Apple PPC to Intel transition. I used to be a Mac user back then before Surface and I remember what it was like and can offer some color from that.) On Windows developers are either using legacy tech / Win32 or they are developing in Electron and calling it a Windows app. I don’t understand how a company with a proven track record of being completely and totally unable to move their development community to new tech expected to get them to support a new arch! The only way they could have pulled this off would be to deprecate AMD64 support in everything but enterprise editions and move the entire surface line to ARM, and MS is not that gutsy. That’s a Jobs move, not a Nadella move.
But it actually gets worse. The design of this thing is not good. It is not useful and is a major step back from the Surface tradition of designing for real people and real usage. It seems like the Surface group envy Apple, but they seem to forget that people who choose not to buy Apple – against all of the pressure to do so – do it for a reason. I personally don’t like Apple’s design choices. I think removing ports is bad. I think pursuing thinness over ergonomics is bad. I think eliminating bezels on tablets is dumb. And I was always happy to see Surface be something different. The X’s design apes everything bad Apple has done over the past few years. My hands are always covering part of the screen, I can’t plug in my headphones, it doesn’t have a normal USB port, it doesn’t even have an SD card slot. I can’t plug anything into it except a monitor, and I have no interest in living the dongle life.If I was willing to chase thinness over everything and didn’t care about ports or ergonomics I would just buy an iPad! The X is like all of the bad hardware design of the iPad without its huge software library and enthusiastic developer support. It is the worst of all worlds!
Finally, I’ll say a few words about the new signature type cover. I didn’t want the signature because I already have a pen and its super expensive. I don’t travel so I don’t need it. However, I wasn’t given a choice at the store and didn’t notice until I got home that I got the signature. I really don’t like it. The keyboard and trackpad are of course wonderful and up to the standards of modern TypeCovers, but the new pen is cheap feeling, uncomfortable to hold, and has a thick crayon like tip. I tried my Surface Pen back to back with the new one and I really don’t like the new one. I wouldn’t opt for it after using it. And the new pen cubby on the keyboard is so ugly and adds a huge bump under the cover, ruining its otherwise clean lines. It ads a ton of thickness to the device when closed that defeats the purpose of making all design decisions in the name of thinness. As an example, if you lay the 7 and X on a table with their covers closed the X is thicker – THICKER – because of the huge pen bulge.
So, that’s about it. I don’t recommend the Surface Pro X if you are a Surface user and if you like what Surface has always provided: a focus on productivity, real world usage, practicality, and flexibility. I can’t think of any reason to purchase it over the cheaper, more powerful, more capable, more ergonomic, thinner (with the case), more expandable, Surface Pro 7. I might – might – recommend it to an executive or sales person who travels constantly and literally uses nothing but Office and a browser, or an Apple user who is interested in Surface and puts Apple’s design choices above all other factors. But that’s about it. And even in either of those cases I’d suggest saving the $200 bucks and getting the more powerful, useful, and ergonomic machine. Saving a couple ounces and getting a couple hours more battery life can’t possibly be worth this many compromises for any but a very small and select niche.
Now, as promised, scores. I tested Geekbench 5 on the Pro X, Go 8GB, Pro 7 i5, and Book 2 i7. All machines were plugged in and set to best performance. The version of Geekbench that supports ARM64 was used and the ARM64 tests run. The results are simple: Pro 7 comes out on top in every category and there’s as much or more of a gap in performance between the Pro 7 and the Pro X as there is between the Pro X and the Go. When it comes to raw number crunching in this benchmark – however that maps to real world – the Pro X is not in the same class as the Pro line.
· Pro 7: Single core 1175, Multicore 4413
· Book 2: Single Core 1019, Multicore 3511
· Pro X: Single core 726, Multicore 2785
· Go 8GB: Single core 400, Multicore 912
Historical note on Apple and PPC to Intel as a comparison: I was a Mac user before I was a Surface user. The combination of Apple abandoning their creative users and becoming incredibly conservative and the leap forward that was the Surface got me to switch from a platform I was *very* entrenched in. I lived through the PPC to Intel transition, as well as the tail end of the classic to OS X transition. Time will tell for Windows – but both had a better head start and a better situation than Windows AMD64 to ARM64. Classic and Moto to OS X and PPC was more like this transition. It was rougher, some stuff didn’t work, and it took like 3 major releases of OS X before developers were totally on board. Until 10.3 basically everyone dual booted and even core Apple apps didn’t support OS X. That was a different world though. It was very soon after Steve came back and the bad taste of 90s Apple was still in everyone’s mouths. Classic to OS X took years, but they bet the company on it, leaned in, moved their entire product line and stuck through the hard times. No matter how much people screamed they hated OS X Apple didn’t waver, they didn’t back down, they didn’t extend support until the second coming, they pushed forward and eventually everyone came around. PPC to Intel however was very smooth. Most apps just worked, even high end DAWs, video editors, and development stuff. I went from a Powerbook G4 to a MacBook Pro Core Duo and everything worked for me within a week or two. Xcode worked. My video and audio production stuff worked. Most of the boutique third party stuff was patched within a week or two. Adobe and MS took longer but their apps worked under Rosetta right away. I had one piece of software that didn’t work in the transition – a soft synth AU plugin from Korg – everything else worked. And we had the whole new world of Windows dual booting to ease the pain of any problems. I remember playing Oblivion in Windows 7 on that box. It was amazing. I digress though – the point is Apple had their compatibility layer basically perfect before release and didn’t launch with major gaps. Everything worked except for a small amount of outliers, and they had their developers on board and comitted. Microsoft didn’t go that route. Instead most stuff outside of the store doesn’t work, not even slowly. Their own dev tools don’t work. AMD64 emulation is rumored to be coming, but rumors don’t run software. And of course, the Windows development “community” is basically hostile to the platform and is split between apathetic third parties who are only interested in mobile and consider Electron a Windows app, huge old apps made on god knows what weird development platform that have basically no chance of being ported because they are basically all C or C++ or weird shit like Delphi, and old timers who only care about their internal Win32 LOB apps. No one is going to move. So, I don’t see how this ends well. My guess is that Pro X probably ends up like the original Surface RT, or to a degree Mixed Reality (as much as I love mine), or Groove, or Band, or any of the other ideas MS just couldn’t commit to. If MS was serious about this they’d have to bet the company, just like Apple did on OS X and later Intel. A single expensive machine that does less for more money and is basically a solution in search of a problem is not going to make this happen.
P.S. 64 char limit for titles is batshit insane